Albert King B-E-B-E-G#-C# tuning

[Lenny]

In the Hal Leonard tab book "The Very Best Of Albert King" they
explain that Albert's tuning was a mystery and they had to do a lot of
research and view old video footage of his playing at a live concert
to figure out his tuning. This is how they explain his tuning in the
book:

"In these transcriptions, we present his [King's] tuning as follows:
DGDGBE tuning, down 1 1/2 steps"
(low to high) B-E-B-E-G#-C#"

They transcribed the songs in the book to this [B-E-B-E-G#-C#] tuning.
I had a few questions that perhaps more experienced players could
answer.

Is the DGDGBE tuning metioned above open D tuning?

If I wanted to tune to Albert King's presumed tuning and I started
with the DGDGBE tuning wouldn't the strings be very loose if I went
down 1 1/2 steps?

Would I be better off re-transcribing signature licks in the book to
the more common "standard" tuning (EADGBE) instead of tuning to
B-E-B-E-G#-C#?

I want to play along with some of King's tunes but don't want to
re-tune everytime I want to play his songs. I wish they had
transcribed King's songs to more common tuning.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Ray

[Pt]

I didn't know he used unconventional tunings.
But it figures...He played a Flying left handed but it was strung
right handed.
So he was playing it upsidedown with the high E on the top.
Great player.
Not many people can play his style.

I have a Blues Breakers video where he is exchanging licks with Mick
Taylor.
Fantastic music.

Pt

[Perry Domzella]

Hi Ray:

You have asked some very interesting questions.
Please see my comments below.

Post by Lenny
In the Hal Leonard tab book "The Very Best Of Albert King" they
explain that Albert's tuning was a mystery and they had to do a lot of
research and view old video footage of his playing at a live concert
to figure out his tuning. This is how they explain his tuning in the
DGDGBE tuning, down 1 1/2 steps"
(low to high) B-E-B-E-G#-C#"
They transcribed the songs in the book to this [B-E-B-E-G#-C#] tuning.
I had a few questions that perhaps more experienced players could
answer.
Is the DGDGBE tuning metioned above open D tuning?

No. That would be D A D F# A D.

Post by Lenny
If I wanted to tune to Albert King's presumed tuning and I started
with the DGDGBE tuning wouldn't the strings be very loose if I went
down 1 1/2 steps?

Yes. What you have to do here is use nonstandard string guages.

In Albert's tuning the 6th and 5th stings are 5 semitones lower than
normal, and the other 3 are 3 semitones lower.

You can usually get away with 1 or 2 semitones different than normal
without restringing but this is way too far to go.

You would need to dedicate a guitar to just playing Albert's stuff (or
Albert's style).

Then you would string it with lighter-than-normal guage strings.

Instead of (say) .52 .42 .30 .20 .16 .12
you might need (say) .42 .32 .26 .16 .12 .09

I'm just guessing here but the guesses are probably pretty close.

You can buy single strings in any guage you like. I would say: try the
guages I suggested and if any strings are too tight or too loose then
use something lighter or heavier respectively.

Post by Lenny
Would I be better off re-transcribing signature licks in the book to
the more common "standard" tuning (EADGBE) instead of tuning to
B-E-B-E-G#-C#?

Not really, although that is what you would do if you don't have a
guitar to dedicate to Albert's tuning. You definitely cannot play both
tunings on the same guitar with the same strings.

Post by Lenny
I want to play along with some of King's tunes but don't want to
re-tune everytime I want to play his songs. I wish they had
transcribed King's songs to more common tuning.

Sorry about that. They're trying to show you how he does what he does.

Post by Lenny
Thank you in advance for your assistance.

You're most welcome.

Post by Lenny
Ray

Perry D.

[Perry Domzella]

Post by Perry Domzella
In Albert's tuning the 6th and 5th stings are 5 semitones lower than
normal, and the other 3 are 3 semitones lower.

But of course he uses 6 strings, not 5, so I should have said

Post by Perry Domzella
In Albert's tuning the 6th and 5th stings are 5 semitones lower than
normal, and the other FOUR are 3 semitones lower.

Sorry about that. If I find any more mistakes in my previous post I will
certainly write in and complain about them ;-)

Cheers

[thomas schönsgibl]

Post by Lenny
DGDGBE tuning, down 1 1/2 steps"
(low to high) B-E-B-E-G#-C#"

i can be wrong, but i think that this tuning is to low for a guitar.
B is 5 half steps lower than E ( to low )
E is 5half steps lower than A (to low )
B is 3 half steps lower than D ( works )
E is 3 half steps lower than G ( works )
G# is 3 half steps lower than B ( works )
C# is 3 half steps lower than E ( works )
so maybe king used thicker strings ( maybe high bass guitar strings )
for his "E" and "A" string or a special guitar. but i can be wrong! :-))

Post by Lenny
Is the DGDGBE tuning metioned above open D tuning?

no, i don't think so. ( i can be wrong :-)) to me "open tuning" means
that the open strings have to be a chord. so
the chord D ( major ) has the notes D F# A so one "open D tuning "
can be DADF#AF#
or the chord D7 has the notes D F# A C so one " open D7 tuning " ( a
"blues tuning" ) can be DADF#CD
your DGDGBE could be a "open G6 tuning" or a " open D (sus4)6/9
tuning" :-)))

[Pt]

There are two different typical Open D tunings.
One is.
D, A, D, G, A, D
the other is.
D, A, D, F#, A, D

Pt

[Lon Smith]

Come on PT! What kind of "open D" tuning is DADGAD. This is just an
ultimate tuning not an open tuning.

Post by Pt
There are two different typical Open D tunings.
One is.
D, A, D, G, A, D
the other is.
D, A, D, F#, A, D
Pt

[Pt]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:15:49 GMT, "Lon Smith"

Post by Lon Smith
Come on PT! What kind of "open D" tuning is DADGAD. This is just an
ultimate tuning not an open tuning.

It is a frequently used tuning.
As an open chord it is a sus4 chord but many acoustic players use it.

Pt

[Lon Smith]

agreed

Post by Pt
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:15:49 GMT, "Lon Smith"

Post by Lon Smith
Come on PT! What kind of "open D" tuning is DADGAD. This is just an
ultimate tuning not an open tuning.

It is a frequently used tuning.
As an open chord it is a sus4 chord but many acoustic players use it.
Pt

[Perry Domzella]

Hey Lenny!

Thanks for a very interesting set of questions. I've been messing around
with some very odd tunings over the years (partly because I play
Hawaiian steel) and it may be that I have something between my ears that
could actually help you. I'll throw in some comments as I work through
your post...

Post by Lenny
In the Hal Leonard tab book "The Very Best Of Albert King" they
explain that Albert's tuning was a mystery and they had to do a lot of
research and view old video footage of his playing at a live concert
to figure out his tuning. This is how they explain his tuning in the
DGDGBE tuning, down 1 1/2 steps" (low to high) B-E-B-E-G#-C#"
They transcribed the songs in the book to this [B-E-B-E-G#-C#] tuning.
I had a few questions that perhaps more experienced players could
answer.
Is the DGDGBE tuning metioned above open D tuning?

No. The open D tuning is a D major chord, usually [D-A-D-F#-A-D].

Post by Lenny
If I wanted to tune to Albert King's presumed tuning and I started
with the DGDGBE tuning wouldn't the strings be very loose if I went
down 1 1/2 steps?

Yes. You would need thicker strings.

In Albert's tuning, the 6th and 5th strings are 5 semitones lower than
the standard tuning, and the other four strings are 3 semitones low.
Normally you can tune a string 1 or 2 semitones higher or lower than
standard without changing the tension so much that you would notice it.
But 3 or 5 semitones is a long way to go.

If you want to play his tunes in his style, you would need to dedicate a
guitar to this purpose. It could be a cheap beat-up used acoustic or
whatever you can get at a reasonable price. I assume you're just looking
for a chance to learn something; so I'd suggest that you don't need
anything fancy at this point. You could even borrow a guitar from a
friend for a time, while you're looking for one you can afford to buy.

Now, as for stringing it, this is my advice: Buy a set of strings
slightly on the "slinky" side. Also buy another single string that is 8
or 10 thousandths of an inch thicker than the 6th string from your set.
Use this as your 6th string. Use the 6th string from the set as your
5th. (That's an E, just like it's supposed to be.) Use the 5th string
from the package as your 4th. (It's supposed to be an A, but you'll tune
it to a B.) Keep going like this and you will eventually have one string
left over. That's a spare for your other guitar. Usually the 1st string
is the one that breaks the most anyway.

Congratulations! You now have a guitar strung the way you need it, and
it didn't cost you very much at all. Now you can play stuff from the
Albert King book and other stuff as well, just by switching guitars. And
all the strings will have approximately the correct tension. I advised
you to get slightly slinky strings because you'll be tuning them 1 or 2
semitones higher than they normally would be (in standard tuning), and
therefore the tension on them will be just about right.

Post by Lenny
Would I be better off re-transcribing signature licks in the book to
the more common "standard" tuning (EADGBE) instead of tuning to
B-E-B-E-G#-C#?

I don't think you would. Of course if you cannot find another guitar to
dedicate to your "Albert King" project, then this would be your only
practical choice. But you'd end up doing a lot of extra work, and you
still wouldn't be learning what the book is trying to teach you.

Post by Lenny
I want to play along with some of King's tunes but don't want to
re-tune everytime I want to play his songs. I wish they had
transcribed King's songs to more common tuning.

Presumably the reason why they did not do this is because they are
trying to show you how he does what he does.

Post by Lenny
Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Any time. If there's anything here that you don't understand, write more
and I (and of course all the others) will be happy to help you.

Post by Lenny
Ray

Perry D.

[Mike C.]

I wouldn't suggest retuning at all. There's nothing that Albert King did
that can't be done on a standard-tuned guitar. It would also make playing
chords nearly impossible, as you may note that Albert didn't do much of.

I love Albert King, but what he's doing isn't rocket science, and you don't
need a screwed up tuning to get it. I'd suggest ignoring the tab and
learning the notes as they are laid out in the standard notation. That way,
you'll learn to play the notes that Albert played, but learn to play them
your own way. You don't necessarily have to mimic the player's every breath,
every move, etc., in order to learn from what he played.
--
Mike C.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
could
not hear the music."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post by Perry Domzella
Hey Lenny!
Thanks for a very interesting set of questions. I've been messing around
with some very odd tunings over the years (partly because I play
Hawaiian steel) and it may be that I have something between my ears that
could actually help you. I'll throw in some comments as I work through
your post...

Post by Lenny
In the Hal Leonard tab book "The Very Best Of Albert King" they
explain that Albert's tuning was a mystery and they had to do a lot of
research and view old video footage of his playing at a live concert
to figure out his tuning. This is how they explain his tuning in the
DGDGBE tuning, down 1 1/2 steps" (low to high) B-E-B-E-G#-C#"
They transcribed the songs in the book to this [B-E-B-E-G#-C#] tuning.
I had a few questions that perhaps more experienced players could
answer.
Is the DGDGBE tuning metioned above open D tuning?

No. The open D tuning is a D major chord, usually [D-A-D-F#-A-D].

Post by Lenny
If I wanted to tune to Albert King's presumed tuning and I started
with the DGDGBE tuning wouldn't the strings be very loose if I went
down 1 1/2 steps?

Yes. You would need thicker strings.
In Albert's tuning, the 6th and 5th strings are 5 semitones lower than
the standard tuning, and the other four strings are 3 semitones low.
Normally you can tune a string 1 or 2 semitones higher or lower than
standard without changing the tension so much that you would notice it.
But 3 or 5 semitones is a long way to go.
If you want to play his tunes in his style, you would need to dedicate a
guitar to this purpose. It could be a cheap beat-up used acoustic or
whatever you can get at a reasonable price. I assume you're just looking
for a chance to learn something; so I'd suggest that you don't need
anything fancy at this point. You could even borrow a guitar from a
friend for a time, while you're looking for one you can afford to buy.
Now, as for stringing it, this is my advice: Buy a set of strings
slightly on the "slinky" side. Also buy another single string that is 8
or 10 thousandths of an inch thicker than the 6th string from your set.
Use this as your 6th string. Use the 6th string from the set as your
5th. (That's an E, just like it's supposed to be.) Use the 5th string
from the package as your 4th. (It's supposed to be an A, but you'll tune
it to a B.) Keep going like this and you will eventually have one string
left over. That's a spare for your other guitar. Usually the 1st string
is the one that breaks the most anyway.
Congratulations! You now have a guitar strung the way you need it, and
it didn't cost you very much at all. Now you can play stuff from the
Albert King book and other stuff as well, just by switching guitars. And
all the strings will have approximately the correct tension. I advised
you to get slightly slinky strings because you'll be tuning them 1 or 2
semitones higher than they normally would be (in standard tuning), and
therefore the tension on them will be just about right.

Post by Lenny
Would I be better off re-transcribing signature licks in the book to
the more common "standard" tuning (EADGBE) instead of tuning to
B-E-B-E-G#-C#?

I don't think you would. Of course if you cannot find another guitar to
dedicate to your "Albert King" project, then this would be your only
practical choice. But you'd end up doing a lot of extra work, and you
still wouldn't be learning what the book is trying to teach you.

Post by Lenny
I want to play along with some of King's tunes but don't want to
re-tune everytime I want to play his songs. I wish they had
transcribed King's songs to more common tuning.

Presumably the reason why they did not do this is because they are
trying to show you how he does what he does.

Post by Lenny
Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Any time. If there's anything here that you don't understand, write more
and I (and of course all the others) will be happy to help you.

Post by Lenny
Ray

Perry D.

[Chess Player]

You'd really have to get a separate, dedicated guitar to pull this off.
First off, the strings would have to be very heavy as tuning down that low
would make the strings very loose as you stated. This would also likely
require a neck adjustment as well as a nut adjustment. Once you've cut the
nut as low as you'd need for these big strings you wouldn't be able to reuse
it for lighter strings. Unless you've got some experience in guitar set-up
you'd likely need to take it to a tech. As Mike said, I agree you'd be much
better off learning by ear and playing it in standard tuning. Alternate
tunings can be fun and by all means check out the DGDGBE tuning you
mentioned if nothing more than just for kicks.
Brian

[Perry Domzella]

As you can see, a fellow can get quite a few different opinions around
here. I seem to be in the minority this time. I think the way I think
and they think the way they think. It's totally cool, in my view. I've
almost always got a spare guitar around and I'm usually looking for new
ways to string it, and to tune it. So I tend to lean toward the
dedicated-instrument school of thought. You would learn a lot if you did
what I suggested. Especially if you had a guitar you could afford to
experiment with. But you can certainly learn a lot by going the other
way as well. No doubt about that.

Cheers, guys!

Gulp!

[i***@medallia.com]

I bought a 2019 Gibson Flying V and BEBEG#C# works great with the strings I got in it.
The sixth string (B) is a bit loose but can be played still and adding a little vibrato makes it sound great. I can go from standard tuning to this tuning without any issues.

Hope it helps.