Looking for a Bass player for online learning group

[Angof]

Hi peeps,

I am a member of an online jamming group thats started through AGB early
this year, we been doing pretty good, but are looking for a novice bass
player to take part. We tend to send tracks around we've each recorded, play
over those, share our learning and have a bit of fun via email.

We are not a band that will ever go on the road (as half of us are in
different countries), we will most likely ever see each other face to face
and if we ever record a CD, well i think most of us will be drawing our
pensions :-)

Anyway if you're a novice bass player, are commited to sharing some of what
you play, and wanna have some fun learning the bass with some guitarists (we
even have a drummer now!) then let me know. It's fun but every person
commits to taking the other people's learning seriously and helping each
other get better.


If youre interested let me know.

Take it easy all

Angof

[Pt]

Post by Angof
Hi peeps,
I am a member of an online jamming group thats started through AGB early
this year, we been doing pretty good, but are looking for a novice bass
player to take part. We tend to send tracks around we've each recorded, play
over those, share our learning and have a bit of fun via email.
We are not a band that will ever go on the road (as half of us are in
different countries), we will most likely ever see each other face to face
and if we ever record a CD, well i think most of us will be drawing our
pensions :-)

Since I'm already drawing a pension I am not qualified.
But.
I did this back in the 80's with cassettes and porta-studios.
7 people all over the country.
Came out really good and it was fun.
Just took a long time.

Pt

[Angof]

Post by Pt

Post by Angof
Hi peeps,
I am a member of an online jamming group thats started through AGB early
this year, we been doing pretty good, but are looking for a novice bass
player to take part. We tend to send tracks around we've each recorded, play
over those, share our learning and have a bit of fun via email.
We are not a band that will ever go on the road (as half of us are in
different countries), we will most likely ever see each other face to face
and if we ever record a CD, well i think most of us will be drawing our
pensions :-)

Since I'm already drawing a pension I am not qualified.
But.
I did this back in the 80's with cassettes and porta-studios.
7 people all over the country.
Came out really good and it was fun.
Just took a long time.
Pt

It is great fun, we've had one response, so it looks like we have a bass
player! We have 6 people on 2 continents, so not doing bad.


With the advent of the internet it has revolutionised things. Record a
rhythm, upload to a webspace, email your mates, they download and play with
it. I think for many hobbyists this is a fairly good approach to creating
music. There is nothing like a live jam, I think we all generally agree, but
this is a fantastic example of the positive effect of the internet.


BTW we dont discriminate about age, if you're drawing a pension and have
made a cd of your music then no worries. I didnt say it had to be saleable
did i ;-)

Seriously though, it is a more mature group and it works very well.

[Pt]

Post by Angof
Seriously though, it is a more mature group and it works very well.

Mature and musician is an oxymoron.

Pt

[Angof]

Post by Pt

Post by Angof
Seriously though, it is a more mature group and it works very well.

Mature and musician is an oxymoron.
Pt

Oh Pt, you're such a sour puss. Sure theres loads of mature musicians out
there, they just aren't the successful ones ;-)

Angof

[no66y©]

I think Pt is hankering after joining ;-)

[Dave Van]

Post by no66y©
I think Pt is hankering after joining ;-)

I think Pt would change his mind about that after listening to some of
the tracks!

[Nil]

Post by Pt
I did this back in the 80's with cassettes and porta-studios.
7 people all over the country.
Came out really good and it was fun.

I've done this several times using digital methods. It did come out
very good and was a lot of fun. If you guys want advice on the
mechanics and logistics of the thing, let me know.

[Angof]

Post by Nil

Post by Pt
I did this back in the 80's with cassettes and porta-studios.
7 people all over the country.
Came out really good and it was fun.

I've done this several times using digital methods. It did come out
very good and was a lot of fun. If you guys want advice on the
mechanics and logistics of the thing, let me know.

Thanks nil, I really appreciate that.

Angof

[Nil]

Post by Angof
Thanks nil, I really appreciate that.

Does that mean you want to hear about it?

[Angof]

Post by Nil

Post by Angof
Thanks nil, I really appreciate that.

Does that mean you want to hear about it?

Yes please.

Angof

[Nil]

Post by Angof
Yes please.

OK, here's one example...

Several years ago, I wanted to record an instrumental version of a song
by Todd Rundgren, called "Just One Victory". I rounded up two other
guitarists and a keyboardist. I was the "project leader".

My basic requirement was that the other guys be able to listen to a
backing track with headphones and record their parts solo, that is,
without the backing track being audible. They would then send their
tracks back to me and I would assemble all the pieces of the puzzle.

The best method would be for them to do everything digitally using
Cakewalk, Cubase, Cool Edit, or the like. I would supply them the
backing track as a WAV, AIFF, or MP3 file, and they would return to me
the same, preferably WAV. If need be, I was prepared to send them an
audio cassette, and they could record their part onto that format, too,
say if they only had one of those cassette porta-studios. I realized
that an audio cassette would not sync perfectly with a digital backing
track, but I figured I could compensate for it on the computer.
Fortunately, everyone was able to do it digitally.

We exchanged files in various ways. I was able to send out smallish
MP3s via email. Another person and I send CD-Rs via snail mail.
Another, I set up an FTP server so they could transfer the files via
internet.

I used Cakewalk Pro Audio and Sonar to record a backing track
consisting of MIDI sequenced drums, bass guitar, acoustic rhythm guitar
and electric rhythm guitar. I recorded more choruses of the tune than I
needed, because I wasn't sure how I was going to structure the tune
yet. I sent the backing track off to the guys and asked them to record
a 2-chorus solo. If they wanted, they could record 2 or more takes, so
I could choose one or comp them together.

The solos I got back were great! I put the backing track on one track
of Sonar, and each of the solos on their own separate track. I then
slid them back and forth in time until they were synced to the track.
Miraculously, they fit together perfectly. For example, one solo ended
on a long, sustained note, and one of the other solos just happened to
start on the same note! I left space at the beginning and end to record
the head and my own solos. I had the advantage of hearing everybody
elses work, so I was able to play something complimentary.

So, here's what we came up with:

http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3

A few months ago I went back and tried to do a remix using some of my
new digital audio toys in order to make the drums a little less
hyperactive and less electronic sounding. I guess I've listened to this
version too many times, because my dicking around with it seemed to
only diminish the vibe.

[Angof]

Very interesting, thank you.

Everything done by us is digital. Someone records a track rhythm, lead
whatever, to P.C. via line in from devices producing a line signal etc,
saved as an mp3 and then put up on an ftp site so the other can download at
thier leisure. The creator sends an email round to the others to let them
know it's there, timing for metronomes, effects used, keys, notes if
necessary, any other oddities one needs to know.

We all can download it, load it into our recording/editing programs i.e.
audacity/audition and record over straight on the P.C. I think for most of
us, we have pretty powerful p.c.s so latency doesnt seem to be an issue.

I use adobe audition and you can play multiple tracks and record over it.
Apply effects either while playing or after. Mixdown the tracks and upload
to the ftp.
These are then shared around for comment, more work etc.

We havent really ventured into MIDI, we've goen down the real musician
route. We have a drummer, a bass player as of yesterday and well 4
guitarists. ALthough the guitarists seem to be tending towards rhythm or
lead which gives a nice balance.

These are the basics really to allow us to do what we need to do, theres
loads we are learning as we are going along, so any advice or tips and
tricks would be really appreciated.

Take it easy

Angof

Post by Nil

Post by Angof
Yes please.

OK, here's one example...
Several years ago, I wanted to record an instrumental version of a song
by Todd Rundgren, called "Just One Victory". I rounded up two other
guitarists and a keyboardist. I was the "project leader".
My basic requirement was that the other guys be able to listen to a
backing track with headphones and record their parts solo, that is,
without the backing track being audible. They would then send their
tracks back to me and I would assemble all the pieces of the puzzle.
The best method would be for them to do everything digitally using
Cakewalk, Cubase, Cool Edit, or the like. I would supply them the
backing track as a WAV, AIFF, or MP3 file, and they would return to me
the same, preferably WAV. If need be, I was prepared to send them an
audio cassette, and they could record their part onto that format, too,
say if they only had one of those cassette porta-studios. I realized
that an audio cassette would not sync perfectly with a digital backing
track, but I figured I could compensate for it on the computer.
Fortunately, everyone was able to do it digitally.
We exchanged files in various ways. I was able to send out smallish
MP3s via email. Another person and I send CD-Rs via snail mail.
Another, I set up an FTP server so they could transfer the files via
internet.
I used Cakewalk Pro Audio and Sonar to record a backing track
consisting of MIDI sequenced drums, bass guitar, acoustic rhythm guitar
and electric rhythm guitar. I recorded more choruses of the tune than I
needed, because I wasn't sure how I was going to structure the tune
yet. I sent the backing track off to the guys and asked them to record
a 2-chorus solo. If they wanted, they could record 2 or more takes, so
I could choose one or comp them together.
The solos I got back were great! I put the backing track on one track
of Sonar, and each of the solos on their own separate track. I then
slid them back and forth in time until they were synced to the track.
Miraculously, they fit together perfectly. For example, one solo ended
on a long, sustained note, and one of the other solos just happened to
start on the same note! I left space at the beginning and end to record
the head and my own solos. I had the advantage of hearing everybody
elses work, so I was able to play something complimentary.
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3
A few months ago I went back and tried to do a remix using some of my
new digital audio toys in order to make the drums a little less
hyperactive and less electronic sounding. I guess I've listened to this
version too many times, because my dicking around with it seemed to
only diminish the vibe.

[Nil]

Post by Angof
Everything done by us is digital. Someone records a track rhythm,
lead whatever, to P.C. via line in from devices producing a line
signal etc, saved as an mp3 and then put up on an ftp site so the
other can download at thier leisure. The creator sends an email
round to the others to let them know it's there, timing for
metronomes, effects used, keys, notes if necessary, any other
oddities one needs to know.
We all can download it, load it into our recording/editing
programs i.e. audacity/audition and record over straight on the
P.C. I think for most of us, we have pretty powerful p.c.s so
latency doesnt seem to be an issue.

I can see one flaw with this method. The repeated cycle of
decompressing the MP3 and recompressing it to another MP3 is bound to
severely degrade the sound quality. If you can somehow keep the
iterations of that cycle to a bare minimum, or deal with un-lossy-
compressed WAV files, your result will sound much better.

By the way, the computer doesn't necessarily need to be "powerful" to
get low latency. I still record on my 450mHz PIII, 384MB RAM, and I can
get quite a few tracks going with little strain. The key is to have a
sound card with low latency drivers.

[Angof]

Post by Nil

Post by Angof
Everything done by us is digital. Someone records a track rhythm,
lead whatever, to P.C. via line in from devices producing a line
signal etc, saved as an mp3 and then put up on an ftp site so the
other can download at thier leisure. The creator sends an email
round to the others to let them know it's there, timing for
metronomes, effects used, keys, notes if necessary, any other
oddities one needs to know.
We all can download it, load it into our recording/editing
programs i.e. audacity/audition and record over straight on the
P.C. I think for most of us, we have pretty powerful p.c.s so
latency doesnt seem to be an issue.

I can see one flaw with this method. The repeated cycle of
decompressing the MP3 and recompressing it to another MP3 is bound to
severely degrade the sound quality. If you can somehow keep the
iterations of that cycle to a bare minimum, or deal with un-lossy-
compressed WAV files, your result will sound much better.
By the way, the computer doesn't necessarily need to be "powerful" to
get low latency. I still record on my 450mHz PIII, 384MB RAM, and I can
get quite a few tracks going with little strain. The key is to have a
sound card with low latency drivers.

Interestingly, I see a lot of discussion about latency and my backup p.c. is
a Celeron 433 MHz, 512 Mb with onboard sound (Yamaha OPL SAx chip). I get
low latency on that too. I wonder how much of it is about drivers.........
or indeed hype.

Good point about compression. We arent producing CD quality work yet, but it
may become an issue. The amount of swapping hasnt been huge yet, 2 or 3
times at most usually. It will be worth considering wav or swapping multiple
source mp3 files.

Angof

[Dave Van]

Post by Angof

Post by Nil

Post by Angof
Everything done by us is digital. Someone records a track rhythm,
lead whatever, to P.C. via line in from devices producing a line
signal etc, saved as an mp3 and then put up on an ftp site so the
other can download at thier leisure. The creator sends an email
round to the others to let them know it's there, timing for
metronomes, effects used, keys, notes if necessary, any other
oddities one needs to know.
We all can download it, load it into our recording/editing
programs i.e. audacity/audition and record over straight on the
P.C. I think for most of us, we have pretty powerful p.c.s so
latency doesnt seem to be an issue.

I can see one flaw with this method. The repeated cycle of
decompressing the MP3 and recompressing it to another MP3 is bound to
severely degrade the sound quality. If you can somehow keep the
iterations of that cycle to a bare minimum, or deal with un-lossy-
compressed WAV files, your result will sound much better.
By the way, the computer doesn't necessarily need to be "powerful" to
get low latency. I still record on my 450mHz PIII, 384MB RAM, and I can
get quite a few tracks going with little strain. The key is to have a
sound card with low latency drivers.

Interestingly, I see a lot of discussion about latency and my backup p.c. is
a Celeron 433 MHz, 512 Mb with onboard sound (Yamaha OPL SAx chip). I get
low latency on that too. I wonder how much of it is about drivers.........
or indeed hype.

It's all in the drivers.

Post by Angof
Good point about compression. We arent producing CD quality work yet, but it
may become an issue. The amount of swapping hasnt been huge yet, 2 or 3
times at most usually. It will be worth considering wav or swapping multiple
source mp3 files.
Angof

[Nil]

Post by Dave Van
It's all in the drivers.

I should have been a little more specific about my own setup.

My computer is pretty weak for a recording machine, especially to be
running Sonar 4, which suffers a bit from application bloat. Sonar
itself would like a faster CPU and more memory. Until I got this, I ran
Sonar 2, which ran a bit better on this machine. But I like the
features of the newer version, so I put up with a bit of sluggishness
for now, until I build a new computer one of these days.

My main recording card is an M-Audio 2496, which does have decent WDM
and Asio drivers, enabling the latency to be set pretty low. It's low
enough that I can play a software synthesizer via a MIDI connected
keyboard, and the latency is only very slight. I believe that if the
computer had more horsepower, I could get it even lower.

What saves me during audio recording is that I do NOT monitor through
the computer. To do that would involve the audio signal being convered
from analog to digital, and then BACK to analog for listening. This
double-conversion does result in an audible latency. So, instead, all
sound sources - mics, synth modules, computer - are connected to a
small mixer, and I monitor from that. That way there is no appreciable
lag when recording while monitoring.

So, it's not *all* in the drivers, but most of it is.

[Charmed Snark]

...

Post by Nil

Post by Angof
We all can download it, load it into our recording/editing
programs i.e. audacity/audition and record over straight on the
P.C. I think for most of us, we have pretty powerful p.c.s so
latency doesnt seem to be an issue.

I can see one flaw with this method. The repeated cycle of
decompressing the MP3 and recompressing it to another MP3 is bound to
severely degrade the sound quality. If you can somehow keep the
iterations of that cycle to a bare minimum, or deal with un-lossy-
compressed WAV files, your result will sound much better.

They'll be ok, if the decompressed MP3 is only used as the
"backing track". As long as you submit new tracks as WAV
or some other lossless (or high quality setting MP3), you
might be ok.

Post by Nil
By the way, the computer doesn't necessarily need to be "powerful" to
get low latency. I still record on my 450mHz PIII, 384MB RAM, and I can
get quite a few tracks going with little strain. The key is to have a
sound card with low latency drivers.

If you get more serious about this, you should consider a
wider sample size like 24-bit or higher. Higher sampling
rates also help, but you need to have the disk space and
especially the CPU speed for that (the CPU demands increase
substantially when you start down this path). A fast CPU
is always helpful -- especially when you start adding many
software effects/equalizers/compressors etc. to tracks.

[no66y©]

"Angof" wrote in message

Post by Angof
We havent really ventured into MIDI,

It may just be me but I've never really taken to midi.
It just doesn't really do it for me, not sure why as its very very
versatile.

Does anyone else feel the same or is it just me?

[Nil]

Post by no66y©
It may just be me but I've never really taken to midi.
It just doesn't really do it for me, not sure why as its very very
versatile.
Does anyone else feel the same or is it just me?

There's no reason to "get into it" unless you have a need. I use MIDI
to create drum and keyboard tracks on the computer. I don't have a drum
set or a convenient place to record one, and rounding up a drummer for
my whimsical one-man-band productions isn't really fair to them. I'm a
poor keyboard player, so MIDI allows me to make something useable out
of what chops I have. MIDI lets me orchestrate music by stacking
keyboard and orchestral sounds in a way that I otherwise can't on my
own. Also, there are lots of software synthesizers that give me tons of
interesting sounds in so space at all - how much room would I have to
have to house a real B3 organ, Fender Rhodes, Mellotron, etc.?

I find MIDI to be very useful.

[Angof]

Post by Nil

Post by no66y©
It may just be me but I've never really taken to midi.
It just doesn't really do it for me, not sure why as its very very
versatile.
Does anyone else feel the same or is it just me?

There's no reason to "get into it" unless you have a need. I use MIDI
to create drum and keyboard tracks on the computer. I don't have a drum
set or a convenient place to record one, and rounding up a drummer for
my whimsical one-man-band productions isn't really fair to them. I'm a
poor keyboard player, so MIDI allows me to make something useable out
of what chops I have. MIDI lets me orchestrate music by stacking
keyboard and orchestral sounds in a way that I otherwise can't on my
own. Also, there are lots of software synthesizers that give me tons of
interesting sounds in so space at all - how much room would I have to
have to house a real B3 organ, Fender Rhodes, Mellotron, etc.?
I find MIDI to be very useful.

I think many people associate midi with that awful 80's plastic music. It
puts a lot of people off.

Nil can you recommend any starter programs or tutorials for midi sequencing?

Angof

[no66y©]

"Angof" wrote in message

Post by Angof
I think many people associate midi with that awful 80's plastic music. It
puts a lot of people off.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

I can see the uses of it, and I would use midi if the need arises but I'd
probably look for other solutions first.

Having said that, I've not played around with midi for a while and I reckon
PC audio has improved somewhat since then ;-)

Another factor is time, its always in short supply do the question would be
"in the available time do I play around with midi or pick up my guitar and
play"
ah, the guitar wins each time.

[Nil]

Post by Angof
I think many people associate midi with that awful 80's plastic
music. It puts a lot of people off.

I'm sure you're right. But what they are really reacting to are the
cheezy sounds and over-quantization of the music. MIDI really refers
only to the computer recording of note-on and -off information. It's
much the same as the old player piano rolls. If you play the roll
through a crappy, out-of-tune piano, it will sound bad. If you play it
through a good piano, it can sound good. Similarly, if you play MIDI
music back through your sound blaster's built-in synth, it's liable to
sound tinny and cheap. Play it through some good sound modules, and it
can sound glorious.

"Quantization" refers to a MIDI sequencer's ability to move all note
values to the nearest strict increment of time, say, to the nearest 8th
note. While that feature can be used to correct for sloppy playing,
when overused it can make everything sound square and robotic. That
robotic quality that annoys people isn't a feature of MIDI in of
itself, it's because of people's abuse of quantization. You can get a
much more human-sounding MIDI performance not trying to remove all
human imperfections.

Post by Angof
Nil can you recommend any starter programs or tutorials for midi sequencing?

I can't right now, but I'll think about it. I've been using Cakewalk
products since their DOS sequencer days. That product did MIDI and
nothing else, and it did it well. Too bad it won't work with modern
operating systems. Their SONAR products' main focus is audio recording,
but the MIDI component is still well integrated, and is just as capable
as ever.

[Pt]

Post by no66y©
"Angof" wrote in message

Post by Angof
We havent really ventured into MIDI,

It may just be me but I've never really taken to midi.
It just doesn't really do it for me, not sure why as its very very
versatile.
Does anyone else feel the same or is it just me?

I, in a way, make midi in to analog.
I download a midi for a song and record just the drums (sometimes bass)
and keyboard to a cassette porta-studio.
Then I add guitar, vocal and what ever else I want.

Pt

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Angof" wrote in message

Post by Angof
We havent really ventured into MIDI,

It may just be me but I've never really taken to midi.
It just doesn't really do it for me, not sure why as its very very
versatile.
Does anyone else feel the same or is it just me?

You're probably thinking of MIDI in the context of it
playing some simple sampled tones. However, MIDI as
a control language behind more powerful software
"instruments" can be more impressive, IMO. To
hear what MIDI can be, have a listen to the song
"Pet Affections" I posted to this group today.
Apart from the rhythm guitar and vocals, its all
driven by MIDI. So I'd be interested to hear if
any of that changes your opinion on MIDI. Friends
of mine have responded favorably about it so far.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
So I'd be interested to hear if
any of that changes your opinion on MIDI. Friends
of mine have responded favorably about it so far.

see my other post re rapidshare hosting.

I'm keen to hear it though.

I have been considering digging out my midi keyboard TBH, I have an old
version of cakewalk too (cakewalk 5 for win 95 !)
that will do the job though?

[Nil]

Post by no66y©
I have been considering digging out my midi keyboard TBH, I have
an old version of cakewalk too (cakewalk 5 for win 95 !)
that will do the job though?

As I recall, Cakewalk 5 was one of the first versions to include audio
recording. At that time, the function was kind of raw and buggy. The
MIDI part of the program, however, was quite fully developed even at
that time - and it hasn't changed all that much since. So, for MIDI
work, I bet it will do everything you need and more. For audio, you may
not be as satisfied.

[no66y©]

"Nil" wrote in message

Post by Nil
As I recall, Cakewalk 5 was one of the first versions to include audio
recording. At that time, the function was kind of raw and buggy. The
MIDI part of the program, however, was quite fully developed even at
that time - and it hasn't changed all that much since. So, for MIDI
work, I bet it will do everything you need and more. For audio, you may
not be as satisfied.

cool, for audio recording I've been using audacity so thats fine.
I've dug out the midi keyboard, found the midi lead - just cant find the
power lead :-|
its in the house somewhere - its just a case of finding it.

I also took the surround sound speakers off this pc and put them onto the
music pc in the back room (where the guitars are)

so I'm getting there slowly :-)

when I find the power lead I'll install cakewalk 5 and really upset the
neighbours!

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Nil" wrote in message

Post by Nil
As I recall, Cakewalk 5 was one of the first versions to include audio
recording. At that time, the function was kind of raw and buggy. The
MIDI part of the program, however, was quite fully developed even at
that time - and it hasn't changed all that much since. So, for MIDI
work, I bet it will do everything you need and more. For audio, you may
not be as satisfied.

I assume by "Cakewalk 5" you are not referring to Sonar 5. The
Cakewalk software has since been renamed Sonar, and version 4
did do audio in a big way. Sonar 5 is much cooler again, since
it does a nice job on vocals (at least "Professional" does).

Post by no66y©
cool, for audio recording I've been using audacity so thats fine.
I've dug out the midi keyboard, found the midi lead - just cant find the
power lead :-|
its in the house somewhere - its just a case of finding it.

I see an "Import MIDI" function in Audacity, but I get the
impression you can't edit it there. Is this still the case?

Post by no66y©
when I find the power lead I'll install cakewalk 5 and really upset the
neighbours!

Used copies of Sonar 5 can be had on ebay sometimes. Just be
aware that Cakewalk will not support a transferred license. So
an unopened box is ideal, but you'll pay a lot more for that!
Sonar 5 comes on a DVD, so that might be an issue for old
computers.

Warren.

[Nil]

Post by Charmed Snark
I assume by "Cakewalk 5" you are not referring to Sonar 5.

Yes.

Post by Charmed Snark
Sonar 5 is much cooler again, since
it does a nice job on vocals (at least "Professional" does).

I think the previous versions do just as nice a job with vocals as ver.
5 - the only difference in that respect being that 5 Producer Edition
includes an "auto-tune" type plugin for making you sound like Cher or
Kid Rock.

Post by Charmed Snark
Sonar 5 comes on a DVD, so that might be an issue for old
computers.

That's my problem with it... I have no DVD drive on this computer, so
even though I own a copy of Sonar 5, I'm still "stuck" with v. 4. It's
not a problem.

[Charmed Snark]

...

Post by Nil

Post by Charmed Snark
Sonar 5 is much cooler again, since
it does a nice job on vocals (at least "Professional" does).

I think the previous versions do just as nice a job with vocals as ver.
5 - the only difference in that respect being that 5 Producer Edition
includes an "auto-tune" type plugin for making you sound like Cher or
Kid Rock.

AFAIK, you don't get V-vocal editing on Sonar 4 (I
tried it), or earlier. I think it was new with v5.

Post by Nil

Post by Charmed Snark
Sonar 5 comes on a DVD, so that might be an issue for old
computers.

That's my problem with it... I have no DVD drive on this computer, so
even though I own a copy of Sonar 5, I'm still "stuck" with v. 4. It's
not a problem.

I had a similar problem (initially) so I just made
a share on another computer and network installed
it to the other one. It installed overnight, but it
got the job done.

Warren.

[Nil]

Post by Charmed Snark
AFAIK, you don't get V-vocal editing on Sonar 4 (I
tried it), or earlier. I think it was new with v5.

Right. That's what I meant when I referred to the auto-tune type
plugin.

Post by Charmed Snark
I had a similar problem (initially) so I just made
a share on another computer and network installed
it to the other one. It installed overnight, but it
got the job done.

I could do that, but I'm not going to bother until I get a new
computer. Mine can strains a little running ver. 4, and I believe ver.
5 requires more horsepower. Also, does it not require Windows XP?
That's a problem right now, too, as I use Windows 2000.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Nil

Post by Charmed Snark
AFAIK, you don't get V-vocal editing on Sonar 4 (I
tried it), or earlier. I think it was new with v5.

Right. That's what I meant when I referred to the auto-tune type
plugin.

V-vocal does sport an auto-tune, but frankly I
think you have to have tight vocals to make it
useful. I use it only as a starting point, because
there is still so much other tweaking that I find
is necessary anyway. The autotune is just a time
saving feature.

Post by Nil

Post by Charmed Snark
I had a similar problem (initially) so I just made
a share on another computer and network installed
it to the other one. It installed overnight, but it
got the job done.

I could do that, but I'm not going to bother until I get a new
computer. Mine can strains a little running ver. 4, and I believe ver.
5 requires more horsepower. Also, does it not require Windows XP?
That's a problem right now, too, as I use Windows 2000.

Quite possibly may require XP (I forget). My CPU runs
around 1.2 Ghz, which is barely good enough when using
24 bit samples at 44,100. However, Sonar does allow you
to freeze tracks so that it doesn't have to do all of the
effects in real-time. So I usually freeze tracks with
lots of effects while I tweak the others. You have
to unfreeze it of course, if you want retweak that
frozen track. With a faster computer, this would be
entirely unnecessary.

Warren.

[Jack Wagner]

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by Nil

Post by Charmed Snark
AFAIK, you don't get V-vocal editing on Sonar 4 (I
tried it), or earlier. I think it was new with v5.

Right. That's what I meant when I referred to the auto-tune type
plugin.

V-vocal does sport an auto-tune, but frankly I
think you have to have tight vocals to make it
useful. I use it only as a starting point, because
there is still so much other tweaking that I find
is necessary anyway. The autotune is just a time
saving feature.

Post by Nil

Post by Charmed Snark
I had a similar problem (initially) so I just made
a share on another computer and network installed
it to the other one. It installed overnight, but it
got the job done.

I could do that, but I'm not going to bother until I get a new
computer. Mine can strains a little running ver. 4, and I believe ver.
5 requires more horsepower. Also, does it not require Windows XP?
That's a problem right now, too, as I use Windows 2000.

Quite possibly may require XP (I forget). My CPU runs
around 1.2 Ghz, which is barely good enough when using
24 bit samples at 44,100. However, Sonar does allow you
to freeze tracks so that it doesn't have to do all of the
effects in real-time. So I usually freeze tracks with
lots of effects while I tweak the others. You have
to unfreeze it of course, if you want retweak that
frozen track. With a faster computer, this would be
entirely unnecessary.
Warren.

As a side note, I see Sonar 6 is coming out "soon" and they're offering
Sonar 6 for FREE to anyone who upgrades to Sonar 5 in Aug.

I'm tempted (I have Home Studio XL) but I'd like to see the feature set
in Sonar 6 before shelling out $200.

[Nil]

Post by Jack Wagner
I'm tempted (I have Home Studio XL) but I'd like to see the
feature set in Sonar 6 before shelling out $200.

The program keeps getting better, but the main reason to upgrade,
unless you've missed a few revisions, is the bundled plugins. Sonar 4
had the excellent Sonitus effects, and Sonar 5 has V-Vocal (which I
haven't used yet, but it's supposed to be pretty good.) I'll be curious
to see what they come up with, but I probably skip this upgrade - I've
got more than enough choices to keep me occupied for years to come, and
the program is pretty solid for me.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Nil

Post by Jack Wagner
I'm tempted (I have Home Studio XL) but I'd like to see the
feature set in Sonar 6 before shelling out $200.

The program keeps getting better, but the main reason to upgrade,
unless you've missed a few revisions, is the bundled plugins. Sonar 4
had the excellent Sonitus effects, and Sonar 5 has V-Vocal (which I
haven't used yet, but it's supposed to be pretty good.) I'll be curious
to see what they come up with, but I probably skip this upgrade - I've
got more than enough choices to keep me occupied for years to come, and
the program is pretty solid for me.

The Sonitus effects are rather good.

I would expect v6 will have many bug fixes included in
V-vocal among other things. With the base v5 software, it
can get in a snit from time to time (save your work
frequently when using it).

Warren.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Angof
Very interesting, thank you.

...

Post by Angof
We all can download it, load it into our recording/editing programs i.e.
audacity/audition and record over straight on the P.C. I think for most of
us, we have pretty powerful p.c.s so latency doesnt seem to be an issue.

One thing about this is that it is very easy to correct
the latency problem. I find that with my setup, I do
sometimes notice a small delay on the added track. As
you know, you just have to slide the clip forward in
time by the right small amount and the problem is gone.

Post by Angof
I use adobe audition and you can play multiple tracks and record over it.
Apply effects either while playing or after. Mixdown the tracks and upload
to the ftp.
These are then shared around for comment, more work etc.

Does that software allow you to use any VST/other
plugins? I'll bet it does, but I have to ask.

Post by Angof
We havent really ventured into MIDI, we've goen down the real musician
route. We have a drummer, a bass player as of yesterday and well 4
guitarists. ALthough the guitarists seem to be tending towards rhythm or
lead which gives a nice balance.

It sounds like you're well equipped for "real" musicians
for all the parts, and that is great. For me, I rely
heavily on MIDI for the parts that I don't do, or don't
do well (I could do bass, but honestly, its much easier
for me to have MIDI do it for example). I would be interested
in knowing how well the MIDI worked in the song I made
available (see the thread "Finger Picking on LP: Pet Affections").

How well does the MIDI parts come across in that song to you?
In that track, the bass, synth, percussion are all MIDI based.
I spent almost 2 solid days in getting a decent snare drum
sound, and I am not yet convinced it is the best it could
be yet.

Anyway, MIDI can be a great help to those struggling to get
the full complement on your own. Live tracks are always
better, however.

Post by Angof
These are the basics really to allow us to do what we need to do, theres
loads we are learning as we are going along, so any advice or tips and
tricks would be really appreciated.
Take it easy
Angof

As you may know from prior threads, I am a real SONAR fan.
Combine it with the number of free plugins available, and
the possibilities seem endless. I just need to find more
time for it without neglecting the guitar playing.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I would be interested
in knowing how well the MIDI worked in the song I made
available (see the thread "Finger Picking on LP: Pet Affections").

Just had a look but its hosted on rapid share which for people in the UK is
a no no as rapid share doesn't like most UK IP addresses.

Any chance of putting it on megadownload or putfile or yousendit?

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I would be interested
in knowing how well the MIDI worked in the song I made
available (see the thread "Finger Picking on LP: Pet Affections").

Just had a look but its hosted on rapid share which for people in the UK is
a no no as rapid share doesn't like most UK IP addresses.
Any chance of putting it on megadownload or putfile or yousendit?

Sure. I got as far as registering for an account on putfile,
but then our company's web filtering blocked me. So I'll
have to do that when I get home tonight. I'll post a
follow-up message when its available there.

I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

Thanks, Warren.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

well, not blocked as such but anyone using BT or NTL as an isp
just gets an error using rapidshare saying that the IP is already in use.

Its something to do with the way the isp's allocate IP's

and BT and NTL are the two biggest ISP's in the UK.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

well, not blocked as such but anyone using BT or NTL as an isp
just gets an error using rapidshare saying that the IP is already in use.

That is strange! Somebody's goofed up with IP #
allocations.

Post by no66y©
Its something to do with the way the isp's allocate IP's
and BT and NTL are the two biggest ISP's in the UK.

Ok, as per updated related thread:
"Re: Pet Affections (now on www.putfile.com)"

I have uploaded the file here:
http://uploadfile.putfile.com/videos/21220441618.mp3

Hope that works for you (if not check the URL
http://www.putfile.com/ve3wwg). Any feedback is
welcome.

Of particular interest to this thread is how the MIDI parts
sound to you. Only my vocals and guitar are recorded audio.
The guitar was recorded as clean audio, with a software
guitar amp providing the distortion.

All other instruments in this tune are MIDI driven
software instruments.

Warren.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
http://uploadfile.putfile.com/videos/21220441618.mp3
Hope that works for you (if not check the URL
http://www.putfile.com/ve3wwg). Any feedback is
welcome.
Of particular interest to this thread is how the MIDI parts
sound to you. Only my vocals and guitar are recorded audio.
The guitar was recorded as clean audio, with a software
guitar amp providing the distortion.
All other instruments in this tune are MIDI driven
software instruments.

thats a cool sounding song - I'm well impressed.
If you hadnt said that the other bits where midi I'd never have guessed TBH.

I've found my midi power lead so hopefully later......... ;-)

great song you've done there, I'm loving it. Great vibe.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

...

Post by no66y©

Post by Charmed Snark
Of particular interest to this thread is how the MIDI parts
sound to you. Only my vocals and guitar are recorded audio.
The guitar was recorded as clean audio, with a software
guitar amp providing the distortion.
All other instruments in this tune are MIDI driven
software instruments.

thats a cool sounding song - I'm well impressed.

Thanks guy! Even my guitar teacher was impressed,
which doesn't happen very often ;-)

Post by no66y©
If you hadnt said that the other bits where midi I'd never have guessed TBH.

That's what I was hoping you would say. The software that
gets driven by MIDI is fairly convincing. I did spend
quite a bit of time on the snare drum "sound". The stock
snare just didn't have enough sass, though I am still not
perfectly happy with it. I did have fun putting the snare
sequences together but as always, there is still some room
for some improvement there.

One thing I discovered on this project was that a stock
bass is just not loud enough for songs of this type.
People that gig on bass, would already know this
I suppose.

Within Sonar, the "fretless bass" has a nice clean
sound, but it just hasn't got much presence in the
final mix. I was amazed when I later added this
VST effect called baxxexpander, which adds
distortion to the bass. It really does expand
its overall presence (much like any distorted
guitar I guess). It really helped to give it
more deep end sound.

Then for more fun, I also created a "send"
and sent the bass to another effect (the
name escapes me) that creates a sub-woofer
bass line from the original. You'll only hear
it on good stereos with deep bass, but it gives
it just a little more umph and low end "energy".

Post by no66y©
I've found my midi power lead so hopefully later......... ;-)

Actually, with this project, I didn't use a MIDI
keyboard at all. You can program it all into
Sonar with a mouse. Unless you plan to record
a MIDI sequence, this is probably what you want
to do anyway. You just sit down and mouse in the
events you want for your bass, drums, synth,
piano, etc.

For the drum parts, I just loop 2-4 bars, and
keep messing with the events in realtime until
I get a groove that I am happy with.

Post by no66y©
great song you've done there, I'm loving it. Great vibe.

Thanks again! It was a lot of work, but there's a
great sense of satisfaction when its all done (well,
a song is never really done..).

Warren.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

well, not blocked as such but anyone using BT or NTL as an isp
just gets an error using rapidshare saying that the IP is already in use.

Hey, I liked your "Ride the Black wave". That
was fun to listen to. I now have my 2nd site
at soundclick.com/charmedsnark for my better
productions (my other/goofy stuff is at
soundclick.com/warreninprogress).

Warren.

[Dave Van]

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

well, not blocked as such but anyone using BT or NTL as an isp
just gets an error using rapidshare saying that the IP is already in use.

Hey, I liked your "Ride the Black wave". That
was fun to listen to. I now have my 2nd site
at soundclick.com/charmedsnark for my better
productions (my other/goofy stuff is at
soundclick.com/warreninprogress).
Warren.

Variations on No66y's work can be heard at:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=569568

There's an earlier version of Ride the Black Wave and a recent
collaboration called Floating Away.

Peace

DV

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Dave Van

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

well, not blocked as such but anyone using BT or NTL as an isp
just gets an error using rapidshare saying that the IP is already in use.

Hey, I liked your "Ride the Black wave". That
was fun to listen to. I now have my 2nd site
at soundclick.com/charmedsnark for my better
productions (my other/goofy stuff is at
soundclick.com/warreninprogress).
Warren.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=569568
There's an earlier version of Ride the Black Wave and a recent
collaboration called Floating Away.

I like the "Eastern Shake Down" and "Ride the Black wave"
tracks the most. I like what you did with the lead there.
Its a haunting minor scale type of sound. I also like
how you blended in the occasional power type chords.
Nicely done.

Warren.

[Dave Van]

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by Dave Van

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I had no idea that rapid share was blocked for UK folks.
I'll keep that in mind for the future.

well, not blocked as such but anyone using BT or NTL as an isp
just gets an error using rapidshare saying that the IP is already in use.

Hey, I liked your "Ride the Black wave". That
was fun to listen to. I now have my 2nd site
at soundclick.com/charmedsnark for my better
productions (my other/goofy stuff is at
soundclick.com/warreninprogress).
Warren.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=569568
There's an earlier version of Ride the Black Wave and a recent
collaboration called Floating Away.

I like the "Eastern Shake Down" and "Ride the Black wave"
tracks the most. I like what you did with the lead there.
Its a haunting minor scale type of sound. I also like
how you blended in the occasional power type chords.
Nicely done.
Warren.

Thanks, Warren.

Inspired by what's been going on in the middle east, haunting and
building up to a lot of tension is what I was going for.

Feedback from other players has been incredibly beneficial in the past
few months in terms of my learning and improvement. I, and I'm sure
No66y, appreciate your taking the time to really listen.

Cheers

DV

[no66y©]

"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Feedback from other players has been incredibly beneficial in the past
few months in terms of my learning and improvement. I, and I'm sure
No66y, appreciate your taking the time to really listen.

I certainly do, many thanks for listening and commenting.

Ride the black wave seems a very popular track, I was listening to it myself
last night too.
A great bit of lead playing I reckon.

I'll check warrens music later, I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers

[Dave Van]

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Feedback from other players has been incredibly beneficial in the past
few months in terms of my learning and improvement. I, and I'm sure
No66y, appreciate your taking the time to really listen.

I certainly do, many thanks for listening and commenting.
Ride the black wave seems a very popular track, I was listening to it myself
last night too.
A great bit of lead playing I reckon.
I'll check warrens music later, I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers

Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.

:-)

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Dave Van

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Feedback from other players has been incredibly beneficial in the past
few months in terms of my learning and improvement. I, and I'm sure
No66y, appreciate your taking the time to really listen.

I certainly do, many thanks for listening and commenting.
Ride the black wave seems a very popular track, I was listening to it myself
last night too.
A great bit of lead playing I reckon.
I'll check warrens music later, I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers

Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.
:-)

Nice theory, but just day to day living can make
you insane ;-)

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by Dave Van

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Feedback from other players has been incredibly beneficial in the past
few months in terms of my learning and improvement. I, and I'm sure
No66y, appreciate your taking the time to really listen.

I certainly do, many thanks for listening and commenting.
Ride the black wave seems a very popular track, I was listening to it myself
last night too.
A great bit of lead playing I reckon.
I'll check warrens music later, I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers

Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.
:-)

Nice theory, but just day to day living can make
you insane ;-)

I hate to double post here, but I just checked slashdot
this morning, as I usually do, and read this:

http://slashdot.org/articles/06/08/02/1232229.shtml

"today, tomorrow and the next day are the only days
we'll get dates like this: 2/8/6 3/8/6 4/8/6 like
the x86 computers :-)" And yes folks, in the august
news cycle vortex, even this strikes my fancy. In
recent years we've seen numerical giants like 3/1/4,
6/6/6 and 1/2/3, but now really, what do any of us
have to look forward to? Is our future dull and
meaningless without cool numbers in dates? Oh the
[in]humanity of it all...

I especially liked the quote "but now really, what
do any of us have to look forward to? Is our
future dull and meaningless without cool numbers
in dates?"

That just seems like its crying out for a song --
if only I had the time for it! ;-)

Warren.

[Dave Van]

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by Dave Van

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Feedback from other players has been incredibly beneficial in the past
few months in terms of my learning and improvement. I, and I'm sure
No66y, appreciate your taking the time to really listen.

I certainly do, many thanks for listening and commenting.
Ride the black wave seems a very popular track, I was listening to it myself
last night too.
A great bit of lead playing I reckon.
I'll check warrens music later, I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers

Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.
:-)

Nice theory, but just day to day living can make
you insane ;-)

Whatever the inspiration, I thought your experimental stuff on the 'in
progress' page was lots of fun and not shoddily produced either.

[Charmed Snark]

...

Post by Dave Van

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by Dave Van
Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.
:-)

Nice theory, but just day to day living can make
you insane ;-)

Whatever the inspiration, I thought your experimental stuff on the 'in
progress' page was lots of fun and not shoddily produced either.

You're very kind. The tune "Just As You Are" was
my first recording a year ago, using Audacity. The
timing is pretty bad in that one, but despite that
some people liked the "feel" and sound of it.

Slow Day in Pheonix was another early Audacity
experiment, and an improvisation experiment.

Late Night on Lake Erie was my third Audacity
experiment, but this time it used my Digitech
RP300A for distortion and echo (though sadly
not in stereo). I still really like the concept
of this song and its on my to-do list to redo
in Sonar someday.

El Camino Overdrive was my first foray
into Sonar, and my vocal debut ;-)

Hate My Income Taxes was entirely done within
Sonar with MIDI, with the exception of the
vocals. This was my experiment with vocoders
which I had a great deal of fun with. It took
me a while to figure out how to get a vocoder
to work. In short you put the vocal on one
side (say left) and supply a musical chord
(synth) on the right. The vocoder then
modulates the vocals from the synth, and
produces a new output, which you can blend
into the mix.

Anyway, glad you found something worthwhile
there.

Thanks, Warren.

[no66y©]

"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.

where??

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.

where??

8-)

[Dave Van]

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.

where??

Where are the MP3s or where did he drop the acid?

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Dave Van

Post by no66y©
"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Yes, check out Warren's 'in progress' stuff. Me thinks Warren has dropped
some acid.

where??

Where are the MP3s or where did he drop the acid?

The MP3s are at the link "Music" near the top. You
can go directly to it with this URL:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=407817

Sorry, I thought no66y was looking for the figuratively
"dropped" acid.

Warren.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
The MP3s are at the link "Music" near the top. You

ah, not the charmed snark one.
I get it now!

oh, and just for completeness:
http://www.soundclick.com/no66y

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
The MP3s are at the link "Music" near the top. You

ah, not the charmed snark one.
I get it now!

Yes-- no need to get snarky ;-)

Post by no66y©
http://www.soundclick.com/no66y

I was there last night ;-) Good
stuff.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I was there last night ;-) Good
stuff.

thanks :-)

I've forgotten which thread we were discussing midi (I think I've lost the
plot)
anyways, installed all the gubbins and had a play - it was fun :-)

a snippet of two demo's here - no fancy playing, just testing it out.

http://www.freewebs.com/nspace/files/miditests.mp3

seems to work ok.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

...

Post by no66y©
I've forgotten which thread we were discussing midi (I think I've lost the
plot)
anyways, installed all the gubbins and had a play - it was fun :-)

As I said earlier, you don't have to have a MIDI
keyboard setup to program some MIDI instruments.
But depending upon what you do, it may be a faster
way to get your keyboard events input. After they're
input, you can tighten up the timing etc. in the
software.

We have a community MIDI keyboard here at home, and
when my daughter doesn't have it, I find it helps
with the composing side.

Warren.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
As I said earlier, you don't have to have a MIDI
keyboard setup to program some MIDI instruments.

I'm still at the experimentation phase at the moment, trying to hammer on
the pents with the left hand whilst playing keyboard with the right :-)

I do find I'm veering towards totally synth sounds rather than traditional
instruments (which to me still sound dodgy in midi - though I haven't tried
them all)

the sample file I linked to: the first bit has a polysynth keyboard voice,
the second one had "acoustic grand piano" voice.
I much preferred the first bit.

but then as I say, I'm still in the experimental stage so that could all
change soon.

I did compose a piece some years ago in cakewalk - I'll have to dig it out,
convert to mp3 and put on soundclick.

[no66y©]

"no66y©" wrote in message

Post by no66y©
I did compose a piece some years ago in cakewalk - I'll have to dig it out,
convert to mp3 and put on soundclick.

doing now in fact!

[Charmed Snark]

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
As I said earlier, you don't have to have a MIDI
keyboard setup to program some MIDI instruments.

...

Post by no66y©
I do find I'm veering towards totally synth sounds rather than traditional
instruments (which to me still sound dodgy in midi - though I haven't tried
them all)

I don't know if the older versions of cakewalk software
will load today's VST plugins, but you might give some
of them a try. You can find tons of plugins
at

http://www.kvraudio.com

You don't need an account to download. At the very left
side, near the top, look for:

Instruments
Effects
Hosts
Etc.

and click on that. Then fill in the form below to find
your plugins. I usually only bother with free ones, but
there are some demos that you can play with also (if you
have the time for that).

If you're looking for software synths etc. click on
the "instruments" instead of "effects" (but be sure
to check out the different effects as well for audio).

Choose VST for your "Format" (I'm not sure the others
will apply to you).

Choose your OS, etc. and then click "Search".

Note that plugins sometimes crash your software, so
be sure to save your changes at critical junctures ;-)

Warren.

[no66y©]

"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
I don't know if the older versions of cakewalk software
will load today's VST plugins, but you might give some
of them a try. You can find tons of plugins
at
http://www.kvraudio.com

Great looking site but none of the ones I tried would be recognised by CW5
but then I couldn't figure out how you'd import then into it anyway!
Searched the web and the help etc but nada :-(

maybe its just too old!

thanks for the pointer to the site though :-)

[Nil]

Post by no66y©

Post by Charmed Snark
http://www.kvraudio.com

Great looking site but none of the ones I tried would be
recognised by CW5 but then I couldn't figure out how you'd import
then into it anyway! Searched the web and the help etc but nada
:-(
maybe its just too old!

I don't think it would work with your version of Cakewalk. Later
versions were able to use DXi effects and instruments, and were also
able to use VST effects and instruments with an optional VST -> DXi
software adapter. Nowadays the adapter is included with Sonar.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Nil

Post by no66y©

Post by Charmed Snark
http://www.kvraudio.com

Great looking site but none of the ones I tried would be
recognised by CW5 but then I couldn't figure out how you'd import
then into it anyway! Searched the web and the help etc but nada
:-(
maybe its just too old!

I was afraid of that. Well, now you know for sure.
Audacity apparently will support some of the effects,
though I've not tried it myself (I believe Lumpy has).

Post by Nil
I don't think it would work with your version of Cakewalk. Later
versions were able to use DXi effects and instruments, and were also
able to use VST effects and instruments with an optional VST -> DXi
software adapter. Nowadays the adapter is included with Sonar.

Yes, that's true- you do use an external program to
"manage" new plugins. Once registered (presumably in
the registry), Sonar just finds them upon demand.

Warren.

[Jack Wagner]

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

Post by Charmed Snark
As I said earlier, you don't have to have a MIDI
keyboard setup to program some MIDI instruments.

...

Post by no66y©
I do find I'm veering towards totally synth sounds rather than traditional
instruments (which to me still sound dodgy in midi - though I haven't tried
them all)

I don't know if the older versions of cakewalk software
will load today's VST plugins, but you might give some
of them a try. You can find tons of plugins
at
http://www.kvraudio.com
You don't need an account to download. At the very left
Instruments
Effects
Hosts
Etc.
and click on that. Then fill in the form below to find
your plugins. I usually only bother with free ones, but
there are some demos that you can play with also (if you
have the time for that).
If you're looking for software synths etc. click on
the "instruments" instead of "effects" (but be sure
to check out the different effects as well for audio).
Choose VST for your "Format" (I'm not sure the others
will apply to you).
Choose your OS, etc. and then click "Search".
Note that plugins sometimes crash your software, so
be sure to save your changes at critical junctures ;-)
Warren.

Another great site I just found is this:

http://www.gersic.com/plugins/index.php?daCat=6

I think the best free VST plugins I've found are these:

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php

Very good quality for free.

[Charmed Snark]

Post by Jack Wagner

Post by Charmed Snark

Post by no66y©
"Charmed Snark" wrote in message

...

Post by Jack Wagner

Post by Charmed Snark
http://www.kvraudio.com

...

Post by Jack Wagner

Post by Charmed Snark
Choose your OS, etc. and then click "Search".
Note that plugins sometimes crash your software, so
be sure to save your changes at critical junctures ;-)
Warren.

http://www.gersic.com/plugins/index.php?daCat=6

A couple of those, I am sure I've seen before. But
there's more delay effect plugins there than you
can shake a stick at! If I ever get around to
re-doing Late Night on Lake Erie, there's a
couple of potentially good ping pong echo effects
for the purpose there.

One problem is finding time enough to try them all
out. The other problem is that you can get too
many plugins on your plugin menu to choose from.

Finally, remembering what the names of the plugins
were (or what they do). I wish that they would
categorize them in Sonar so that its easier to
find what you want. If you have 50-100 of them
installed, you start to need some sort of a book
or directory of what is what.

Post by Jack Wagner
http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php

In this category, you'll find many to choose from that
are free from KVR. KVR's database makes it easier
for me to find something I am looking for.

However, I have added these bookmarks to my
collection. :)

Warren.

[no66y©]

"Dave Van" wrote in message

Post by Dave Van
Where are the MP3s or where did he drop the acid?

I mean, where are the choonz.
I only saw the one on the soundclick page.
or am I missing something huge and should expect a "wooshing" sound any
moment?

[Jack Wagner]

Post by Nil

Post by Angof
Yes please.

OK, here's one example...
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3

Hey, that's really terrific!

[Nil]

Post by Jack Wagner

Post by Nil
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3

Hey, that's really terrific!

Thank you!

[no66y©]

"Nil" wrote in message

Post by Nil
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3

damn, thats good.

Now there is something to aim for.

nice tight playing - cool.

[Nil]

Post by no66y©
"Nil" wrote in message

Post by Nil
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3

damn, thats good.
Now there is something to aim for.
nice tight playing - cool.

Thank you! We were pleased that it did come out tight sounding,
considering that everything was recorded at different times from
various far corners of the globe.

[e***@cypress.com]

Very nice ! Out of interest - how did you go about laying it out. Drum
track ( canned pc, live drummer ?? - what order - was there a scratch
track . Was there a rough sketch of how- when to trade off solos
planned ahead .... fast_eddie

Post by Nil

Post by no66y©
"Nil" wrote in message

Post by Nil
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3

damn, thats good.
Now there is something to aim for.
nice tight playing - cool.

Thank you! We were pleased that it did come out tight sounding,
considering that everything was recorded at different times from
various far corners of the globe.

[Nil]

Post by e***@cypress.com
Very nice ! Out of interest - how did you go about laying it out.
Drum track ( canned pc, live drummer ?? - what order - was there a
scratch track . Was there a rough sketch of how- when to trade
off solos planned ahead .... fast_eddie

Thank you! Check back a few posts - I wrote a description on how it was
put together. But to answer your questions...

MIDI drum track that I put together by trying to duplicate by hand the
drum track from the original record. No scratch track, just the backing
track I made. I think I started off with the drums, added acoustic
guitar, bass, electric rhythm guitar, in that order. I then went back
and altered the drum track a little to fit in with the new instruments
better. The only planning on the solos was the length - 2 choruses. It
was only after I heard them that I chose an order. It was by a miracle
that they fit together perfectly.

Here's some more notes I made about the project at the time (1999):

==========

I recorded a backing track of me playing bass, sequenced drums, and
acoustic and electric rhythm guitars. I emailed it to the other guys
who then layed down an 8-bar solo (listening to the backing track, but
recording only the sound of their instrument.) They emailed it back to
me, I played an intro, outro, and my own solo, layed down their solos
in a logical manner, and... voilá! A pan-contintental, virtual band!

Here's what and who:

The sequence of players is:

1. (Start to 0:24) Me playing the intro and a short solo,

2. (0:24 to 0:44) Billy (3-part echo added for faux Brain May effect),

3. (0:44 to 1:04) Phil (precisely rhythmic, fusion-esque...),

4. (1:04 to 1:26) Lee (awash in brain-combing flange),

5. (1:26 to end) me doing my 8 bars and the outro.


Equipment used:

Billy: Fender Strat, Line 6 POD effects processor/amp simulator

Phil: Bright ORANGE Squier Strat, Zoom effects processor

Lee: "It is a Kawai K5000 synthesizer. All effects were on board the
keyboard (it has tons, and you can reorder their use any way you want,
plus mix in the dry signal)."

Me: I'm the only one who used a mic, I think. The intro and first short
solo are my Yamaha SG2000 into a Mesa/Boogie studio preamp and into a
Mesa/Boogie Mark I's power section and speaker. The 2nd solo and outro
are my Fender Strat w/ EMG-SA pickups into the same amp setup.

Rhythm guitars were a PRS CE24 thru the above amp, and an Ovation 1982
Collectors Series acoustic.

I also played my Peavy Dynabass into a compressor and direct into the
mixer. The drums are from my Roland JV30 keyboard, sequenced with
Cakewalk. It was all recorded, mixed, and edited with Cool Edit Pro.

Post by e***@cypress.com

Post by Nil
http://rednoise.home.comcast.net/JOV-finalmix2.mp3